Monday, July 25, 2011

Impossible Project Integral 4X5


We've had a difficult time with our under development 4X5 version of The Impossible Project's integral monochrome material, but some progress has been made. We did many, many tests of rails, spacers, pod configurations, sleeves, how to position the negative and more to try to get it to work with the 545 holder. While this result is not spectacular, it does show good promise. Especially interesting to me is the high apparent sharpness in the details, such as the book spine.

Shot with the Speed Graphic, of course, and scanned and flipped so the image reads the right way around. Like a Daguerreotype, integral images are reversed unless shot through a mirror.

31 comments:

Eric Smith said...

An Impossible Project integral 4x5? Now that's interesting. What kind of back will this require? Is this something brand new, or am I missing something?

Bob Crowley said...

545 holder, this is the first time we've shown anything.

Anonymous said...

You have out done yourself with creepiness, if that is possible. Good show! (what is that thing on the right - don't tell me!)

Eric Smith said...

I like it. I dug around for some clips yesterday, Bob, but came up empty. Guess I'll have to shoot some more!

Bob Crowley said...

I appreciate it! Every clip you sent was used and sincere thanks for sending them Eric.

cafe selavy said...

???? Is this a known entity or something you are working on? I think I read everything on the blog and try what I can. . . .

Bob Crowley said...

We've done many tests on this, trying to get it working in a 545. This is one of the better results, but it is far from perfected. Integral 4X5 could, if good enough, be one of the new tools for LF photography.

Anonymous said...

I feel the same confusion as some others. So much has been discussed or hinted at on this site that I've nearly given up trying to figure out what products are coming or going anymore.

It doesn't help that these updates are buried among postings about Xenotar lenses, video bios, and what not. Not saying I don't appreciate all the other stuff, because I do! Just that it makes it hard to stay up to date on the various films you seem to be involved with.

Better / more regular clarification of the various film materials being juggled and their stages of development would really help.

Perhaps some permanent posting in the margin that breaks everything down by product, intended use, camera requirements, stage of development, etc, etc. Sure would save a lot of time when dropping by to quickly check where things are at.

Just my $0.02 cents.

Bob Crowley said...

Nothing has changed. The same plan as previously published. Sorry you are confused about it. This is a glimpse of an under development idea that we have worked a lot on. Perhaps I shall stop showing things like this.

Everything is 4X5, 545 holder.

Anonymous said...

"Too much is never enough!"
Mick Jagger

Hans said...

This is amazing news. I would buy this in a heartbeat.

Ps. I've a dozen or so rails lying here. Will mail them to you next week (if I don't forget)

Hans said...

Ps. I mean clips (not rails) :)

Bob Crowley said...

I knew what you meant! Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Bob, I know you addressed this but there's so much misconception on the net about what you are trying to create that I'm willing to bet a lot of people have never seen your published plan.

You have a useful permanent post on how to create fuji 100-c negatives, how about one right below it detailing your master plan regarding your up and coming emulsions?

Seems like a useful tool for people interested in dropping by without having to scroll through tons of posts. Might dispel a lot of false ideas about what the new 55 films are really all about too.

Bob Crowley said...

I've though about doing an FAQ and that would be the place it should go. However, keep in mind that this is all happening in real time, that is, bits and pieces go up on this blog as they happen.

The project has been time consuming, expensive, and there are still a lot of "ifs" - mainly about the ability to finance scale up once the initial R&D work (which has been hard and is incomplete) has been done. That said, we are discovering new things too - like the recent result with the integral film - we had a solid month of failures getting that into a sleeve, for instance, but as usual we just posted it when it happened.

I'm curious about which ideas or misconceptions you would like to see addressed first.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

reminds me of when fuji made FI-160 a 4x5-ish, integral in the 1980s.

Bob Crowley said...

Let's see one

smlg.ca said...

Should you ever want some beta testers of this, I'm interested. (already have a 545) :-)
Sean Galbraith.

Anonymous said...

Seems pretty clear to me! Innovation lives!

Anonymous said...

Too early to ask...but whats the price per shot looking like?!

Bob Crowley said...

It is too early. But, it seems that there is an underlying area X processing economic formula, cost per assembly, silver etc. included. So far for the PN material the price projection has been about $6 or 7 US per shot, just about double the current cost of each single sheet of integral film which is about $3 a shot ($24/8 = $3). Any price depends on tooling and scale up. The more we can re-use tooling and facilities over multiple products, the lower the average tooling cost can be.

Michael said...

The IP product is like the Integral they are making now, only bigger? You are still trying to do a version of PN55. Two separate films for 4x5.

Some of the chatter on the net makes is sound like IP is taking over the New55 project and people are hoping to get a usable film and not some arty R&D project.

I have a fund starting for some when it is ready.

Peter J Dylag said...

Wow, thank God that someone is bring back PN, Please keep us informed on a release date!! if you need us to shoot a few test sheets, for quality control purposes, i'll forward my mailing address and will pick up the shipping cost! ;-)....ok , product and shipping $$$, cant wait to see a neg and print again!

Tim Parkin said...

Hi Bob - Don't get too stressed at people getting 'antsy' about things. It's a sign of success, they're treating you just like they would a Billion turnover blue chip with endless resources. You just keep on posting and keep thinking of yourself as a black ops house, post stuff just cause you think 0.1% of people will find it interesting (I guarantee for every ungrateful comment there are another 1000 people who really appreciate the progress report).

And Mr Anonymous - it takes time to build a 'proper' corporate front and if done you will lose these quick posts that offer a glimpse into the inner workings at the cutting edge. The first you will find out will be a sanitised press release, and even then you'll have to wait for god knows how long until the actual product is out - appreciate what you have here..

Bob Crowley said...

"TIP" has we call them (IP has a different meaning in our industries) have been very generous with support, as has 20X24 and plenty of individuals. Yes, there are multiple possible versions of the 4X5 material and experiments ongoing. Since we don't make emulsions we depend on the supply of sensitive materials from all over. TIP has some, 20X24, Ilford, even Shanghai have useful materials.

This project has been more of an "open source" collaboration. I do not mind the idea that there are other stakeholders. Also, some critical comments are good: There is a range of opinion spread around a center point, a distribution of several aspects that are key to the possible commercialization of any new products. I'd rather see them earlier than too late.

We have definitely built a body of knowledge starting from the previously-unpublished know-how that was Polaroid. Much has been lost, maybe that's good. TIP, 20X24 and New55 have had to cast around for new solutions. When we do, we post them. Instant photography is too thinly populated by industry today. Our aim among other things is to shore up the foundation a bit so it can grow. TIP in particular has done an amazing thing in this regard.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I meant to say "people who reference your project- ON THEIR SITES..." etc.

Anonymous said...

Bob, I think your earlier proposal for a FAQ where people can go to sort things out is a fine idea. It need not be extensive, or require corporate resources as Tim Parkin suggested. Just some place where people can go to get quick answers to basic questions. This would be especially useful for newcomers to your blog who may have missed many of your updates. I hope that other people will see the value in this and weigh with their support as well.

I'd also like to take a moment to clear the air on where I'm coming from for those who misconstrue my suggestions as somehow being ungrateful, as Tim suggested.

I've personally stockpiled many cases of Type 55 and I while have enough now to potentially last me a decade or more, I know that with time even low ISO emulsions begin to degrade. To that end I continue to hold out hope that somebody will come along with a satisfactory PN film that I can switch to the day my 55 stock is no longer viable. This is the one and only reason I follow this blog with rapt anticipation.

Additionally, as a long time aficionado of other's Type 55 work, I scour the web regularly for recent updates and newly added T55 images. Doing so takes me to many different blogs and sites of all colors. The misconceptions about your new 55 project I was referring to earlier are as follows- in most cases I'm finding that people who reference your project are under the false impression that you are attempting to duplicate the original Type 55 product. As you you have previously stated here that that is most decidedly not your goal, you can imagine how the perpetuation of erroneous information like this baffles those who ultimately land on your blog with all kinds of expectations.

For myself, I was one of those people who felt a deep sense of disappointment upon discovering you were actually creating something a little different. However, rather than continue to brood and lament the loss of 55, with time I've since come to appreciate the films you are attempting to establish. In my opinion your goals are worthy and if these new emulsions can be brought to market they will make a fine addition to many artist's studios, including my own.

Anyway I hope this clears things up.

Bob Crowley said...

I've posted New55 images among the "real" T55 images now. Nobody seems the wiser. Maybe we can have our cake and eat it too. I have to say I do feel that Tim does seem to have a more accurate sense of the real situation here.

But to be perfectly honest, since now is the time I am deciding if I want to plunk down another $15K ahead of financing, I really do not care too much if the existing or established users of T55 like this or not. This is not because I dislike anybody, only because my market research and polls conducted show that over 2/3 of the potential market will be comprised of younger people who have only heard of T55, and are graduating from Lomography and other forms of analog photo hobbies/avocations, to something more in-depth. And there is real strength from the TIP customer base. That being said, I do not want to produce "merely" arty materials. No, I need detail, sharp sharp detail that I can look at with a microscope, and tones! Lots of them.

Now, everybody go away, and let me get back to work please. Go look at our images on flickr and tell others.

John Reuter said...

Followers should appreciate the pure research that leads in many directions. Business models that include varied interests will no doubt help support the pure 55 crowd. None of this is easy and it is being done with resources that Polaroid used as rounding errors. Be patient.

Anonymous said...

He said go away John. You must be special.

Bob Crowley said...

John can't go away because he is in this knee deep.